Understanding pen tool
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@Victor-Vector @Jayanta-Das I have to admit in all my years using Illustrator I never used the option key for that - I was playing around with it some still trying to figure out how to best use it for cusp nodes.
Typically in Illustrator, I would click again on the node I wanted cusp and then continue onward.
For lack of a better explanation, I get the sense @vectoradmin has a purist mindset in terms of not limiting tools and options with a "quick and dirty" option that may be quick, but limits options. I see this with the node tools where I once advocated for the same quick options (Shift-C was added to VS like it is in Illustrator for example and that was enough for me) I notice it also with things like using the eyedropper to copy attributes
I think the answer is to have options for both quick and dirty and full options -
@Victor-Vector said in Understanding pen tool:
I have to admit, using ALT to "break the handles" to convert a newly drawn node to a cusp node is something I really miss coming from AI and AD. It's one of those great features that is so handy to have integrated in the pen tool and greatly speeds up one's workflow.
When not closing paths, the ALT key should work in the pen tool to create cusp nodes, in the current version.
The closing path bug will be fixed in the next build. -
@Victor-Vector said in Understanding pen tool:
I have to admit, using ALT to "break the handles" to convert a newly drawn node to a cusp node is something I really miss coming from AI and AD.
ALT key works in pen tool as in AD or AI.
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@Jayanta-Das said in Understanding pen tool:
ALT key works in pen tool as in AD or AI.
Only while you draw. If you want to quickly modify some single handle after closing the shape, you need to use the "L".
That's what I found a little bit complicated compared to AI or AD, but it works. -
Only while you draw. If you want to quickly modify some single handle after closing the shape, you need to use the "L".
That's what I found a little bit complicated compared to AI or AD, but it works.You are right. After the path closed, CTRL + ALT is usefull in controlling handles and modifying smooth node to cusp node.
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Maybe I am missing something, or maybe I have an unusual setting, but I cannot get ALT or CTRL to do any node handle adjustment operations while using the pen tool (closed path or open path), or using the Shape Editor.
I even removed the "setting.xml" and "workspace.xml" from the "User\Victor\NumericPath\VectorStyler1.0\vector\data\resources" folder to reset the app to the default settings and tried it again with no results. I am on a PC using Windows 11 like @Jayanta-Das.
Jay, perhaps you have a setting enabled to allow that?
If so, I'd be curious to know! -
@Victor-Vector Sorry. I was telling about the keys useful in AD and AI.
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@Jayanta-Das
Oh, haha, I get it now, thanks! -
@Jayanta-Das Closing the path with the Pen tool while also setting it to a Cusp node by holding ALT+ should work now.
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@vectoradmin Cusp node can be created by holding ATL but can't drag (node) to make the segment curb at the same time.
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@Jayanta-Das Yes, seems to snap to angle also, somehow did not do that in the development build.
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@vectoradmin One more thing, starting node's handle should be retracted if we do not drag while creating the first node.
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Just to clarify a few things. Retracted Bèzier handles can mean two things:
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the handle is retracted under its node but available (can be selected, with difficulty I might add).
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the handle is retracted under the node but invisible (cannot be selected).
If you don’t drag when creating the first and the second node, then I agree, both Bèzier handles of the first segment need to be retracted and invisible. As they currently are.
If just the 1st node is created without dragging and you drag when creating the 2nd node, the app does the right thing in making both handles of this first segment visible (not retracted) and selectable.
Any retracted but visible handle is bad practice — it means only one handle (the other) needs to be used to change the curvature of the segment. And it’s difficult to select and drag the retracted handle from under its node.
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In conclusion:If the segment is straight, both Bèzier handles need to be retracted under their nodes and invisible (unselectable). They are.
If the segment is curved, both Bèzier handles need to be visible and selectable, not just one. They are.
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@b77 Thanks for sharing your thought. Here we have three options:
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Simply clicking to create straight line.
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Simple click the first node but drag while creating the second node.
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dragging both the first and second node.
As far as I know simple click without dragging means cusp node and dragging means it creates handle. So if I create a shape by simply clicking the first node and dragging the second, that means handle of the first node should not be created only handle of the second handle be created.
If want to have the handles of both the nodes then I will drag while creating the first and the second nodes.
This way we have more freedom of creating shapes.
And this is what we get in AI, AD and I think other programs too.
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@Jayanta-Das Not only AI and AD, but also CDR hasn't fixed this… they still draw the first segment with one handle. Sloppy and… path-etic!
VS can do better than that.
But anyway, giving examples of other apps that create the first segment like this is not a valid argument in itself.
Explaining why is that better can help. Even with the videos, I might have missed something, some specific advantage?…
As I see it now, because VS places both handles over a curved segment (with no additional click/effort from the user), you can easily bend the segment in an S shape if needed, which you can't do when one of the handles is retracted (unless you use a separate tool to "unstick" the retracted handle).
I think this approach gives you more freedom — VS creates easier-to-edit segments with the same number of clicks.
(Also: if you export such paths to specialized apps like a font design app you need to fix them afterwards (in font vectors no two points should share the same coordinates)).
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@b77 said in Understanding pen tool:
Explaining why is that better can help. Even with the videos, I might have missed something, some specific advantage?…
As I have already explain We can have first node with or without handle thats the advantage. In AI or AD we can trace anything with pen tool with minimal adjustment of the handle after closing but in VS it is very much sure we have to adjust the handle of first node or second.
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@b77 said in Understanding pen tool:
Not only AI and AD, but also CDR hasn't fixed this… they still draw the first segment with one handle. Sloppy and… path-etic!
I think you haven't use all the features of pen tool and its modifier key in AI or AD can't say about CDR. They doesn't only draw first segment with one handle, can create two handle also.
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@b77 said in Understanding pen tool:
But anyway, giving examples of other apps that create the first segment like this is not a valid argument in itself.
No offence but this is discussion only for more featured and bug free VS.
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@Jayanta-Das Is the first segment when tracing something so far off that you need to use both handles to correct it?
And you'd rather have just one handle for that, because it's easier to fix the curvature that way?OK, then if we apply the same rule, the other segments should also have one of the handles retracted because they are easier to edit with a single handle?
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I still have AI CS5 here on a Sierra partition and I know that when you click-and-drag the first node (when starting a new path with the Pen tool), AI will indeed create a segment that has both handles visible (none is retracted).
But you asked for the handle of the first node to be retracted when simply clicking (without dragging) to create the first node.
That's what I replied to and that's what I disagree with. This creates segments that are more difficult to edit, and if you happen to export those paths to another app with more strict requirements you need to fix them by hand or use scripts for that.
(I hoped AI changed this in more recent releases, but from your video it looks like they didn't).
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@Jayanta-Das said in Understanding pen tool:
In AI or AD we can trace anything with pen tool with minimal adjustment of the handle after closing but in VS it is very much sure we have to adjust the handle of first node or second.
Maybe you can do a quick video comparison between AI and VS demonstrating this.
