Nodes invisible when hovering

[Igull]

This issue arose when trying to snap to the centre of a circle - video attached ...

Node Hovering Issue

With Preferences / Edit Options 2 / Show nodes when hovering selected, nodes on regular objects do NOT show.
Nodes DO show when hovering over irregular objects as shown in the video.

Neil

[VectorStyler]

@Igull Yes, this is easy to replicate, but it is not exactly a bug (depends on expectation).
What happens here is that the rectangle and ellipse are parametric shapes, so these do not (yet) have nodes. Only when converted to curves, will these shapes display the nodes.

Now it is very easy to change to have these parametric shapes to also show the nodes, but one of the benefits of the current mode is that it also indicates whether a shape is still parametric (live) by not showing nodes, or has been converted to curves (by showing the nodes).

[b77]

@Igull Those small nodes are not visible for parametric shapes (the ellipse and the rectangle).
After you convert them to curves they will.

[Igull]

@VectorStyler @b77

Right, OK, got it, thanks for that

As I never need to use parametric shapes in this manner, is there a method to simply draw the shape without it being parametric and not to have to tediously convert to shapes every time ?

Neil

[Ingolf]

@Igull said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

As I never need to use parametric shapes in this manner, is there a method to simply draw the shape without it being parametric and not to have to tediously convert to shapes every time ?

Well, now that I think about it, it's really rare that I need the properties the programs' shapes have. And I do work where I really use many, many shapes, many of which need to be converted to curves. Rectangles and circles especially. It happens all the time that I activate the shape editor and think oh, must be converted before I can work on it.

However, it would be a mistake to make this as (yet) another setting under preferences. It is not a set-and-forget setting. That setting would belong in the context bar or in a panel.

The big problem for me is that I use different programs and quite often confuse keyboard shortcuts for convert to curves.

[VectorStyler]

@Igull said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

As I never need to use parametric shapes in this manner, is there a method to simply draw the shape without it being parametric and not to have to tediously convert to shapes every time

No such option at this time. Should there be?

[Boldline]

@VectorStyler I'm used to converting every shape to curves now after doing so in Affinity and now in VS. I used CS6 illustrator prior and unless there was an overlooked setting, I don't think parametric shapes even existed in there!
I agree if the toggle is added, it should not be in the preferences because it's something I would switch between often. Unless it was a keyboard modifier you set to use in order to bypass the default mode chosen. So if the user preferred creating mostly parametric shapes, holding a keyboard modifier would temporarily swap to the node-based shape for that instance. This sounds good in theory, but then you consider the other keyboard options like control and shift and option are all used for different functions when creating shapes. So trying to hold all other applicable keys down and also dealing with the limited keys we have to begin with, I wonder if that is not the best way...

There is a lot of room on the shape tool contextual menu for a toggle - maybe that is the way?

[Igull]

@VectorStyler said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

No such option at this time. Should there be?

For me, a definite yes on that.
For others, probably not as important as they will convert to curves manually - I guess it boils down to the type of job you do.
However, if it were to be made a preference with the default being not to auto convert, I think that should suit all ?

Neil

[Igull]

@Ingolf said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

and quite often confuse keyboard shortcuts for convert to curves.

I've simply put the command in a selected contextual menu along with other commands I don't really need to remember the keystrokes for - simples, no thought required

I have to say that being able to do such a simple task as that is so helpful. In AI, I was forever writing scripts to do stuff like this.

Mmmm scripts, now there's a thing ........

Neil

[Igull]

@b77 said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

Those small nodes are not visible for parametric shapes (the ellipse and the rectangle).
After you convert them to curves they will.

Yes, just been playing with that for now - there is one major issue however, there is no centre node on either the rectangle or oval (perhaps all of the shapes, I haven't looked) - before or after curve conversion
This makes it extremely difficult to get a snap on the centre of the object - unless you know different of course - there are workarounds of course, but they remain that - workarounds

AI includes a centre node on all the regular polygons IIRC.

Neil

[b77]

@Igull 'Snap to Objects' should allow you to snap…

• nodes of other shapes (Shape Editor -A)
• shapes (Select/Transform - V)

to the center of other shapes.

Quick video: https://recordit.co/RNaHnxuKU6

Unless some setting in Prefs makes this not work there?

And a clarification:

The app displays a center dot for all shapes, parametric or converted when in Select/Transform mode (V). It's not a "node" because it doesn't determine the shape.

Dragging the shape by this center dot should drag the shape along to anything you want it to snap.

Regarding polygons and stars:
This center dot is displayed in the middle of the object's bounding box, which will not coincide with the geometric center of the shape if it has an odd number of sides or rays.

[b77]

@Igull If you want to move a shape while in node editing mode (A)…

• hold down the Cmd key which switches to Select/Transform without pressing V;
• move the shape;
• release the Cmd key…

…and you're back to node editing.

[Igull]

@b77

@Igull 'Snap to Objects' should allow you to snap…

nodes of other shapes (Shape Editor -A)
shapes (Select/Transform - V)
to the center of other shapes.

OK, I've taken a look at your video - firstly, you need to have show indicators switched on to give any indication of "snapping" to the centres of objects rather than snapping actually being visible ?
With show indicators on, it makes for a very "busy" environment - even worse when trying to move say a small circle in a drawing that may already be very complex.
I also notice that it looked like you grabbed the centre of a rectangle, but when I do that, it only moves the centre mark and not the rectangle - very confusing! Taking a second look, it seems that you may be grabbing the fill of the object - none of my objects have a fill, all are empty, so you can't do that and then have to resort to using the outline. This whole arrangement makes for a very messy and difficult solution for something that is as simple as grabbing the centre mark and snapping it to a point ?

And a clarification:
The app displays a center dot for all shapes, parametric or converted when in Select/Transform mode (V). It's not a "node" because it doesn't determine the shape.

OK, but you can't use it to move an object, so what purpose does it serve (other than being able to move it's position during rotation)?

Dragging the shape by this center dot should drag the shape along to anything you want it to snap.

See above, perhaps there's a setting that stops you from moving that centre dot and allows it to be locked ? I've had a look through the settings, but can't see anything ?

Regarding polygons and stars:
This center dot is displayed in the middle of the object's bounding box, which will not coincide with the geometric center of the shape if it has an odd number of sides or rays.

OK on the bounding box, I only use the 3 primary shapes, so that wouldn't be an issue (rectangle(square),circle(oval), triangle).

I'll say again, if "nodes" highlighted when you hovered over them (on parametric objects ), and there was a "centre" node - or "centre" mark , then all of these issues wouldn't arise. Dare I say that AI does this quite elegantly

Neil

[Igull]

@b77

@Igull If you want to move a shape while in node editing mode (A)…

hold down the Cmd key which switches to Select/Transform without pressing V;

OK, thanks for that - quite handy!
I do find that not having the cursor change when swapping from Transform to Shape Editing tools a bit annoying as you don't have any visible way to know what tool you are using (other than glancing at the tool palette).

Neil

[Igull]

@b77 said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

The app displays a center dot for all shapes, parametric or converted when in Select/Transform mode (V). It's not a "node" because it doesn't determine the shape.

I've trawled through the preferences again and it seems that there is a preference called adjusted transform centre that cures the centre point moving.
However, you still have to fully select the object before using it - not quite as tidy as simply dragging the centre point as you would do with any created object

Neil

[b77]

@Igull said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

@b77 said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

The app displays a center dot for all shapes, parametric or converted when in Select/Transform mode (V). It's not a "node" because it doesn't determine the shape.

I've trawled through the preferences again and it seems that there is a preference called adjusted transform centre that cures the centre point moving.

There is also this direct button in the context menubar at the top that allows you do move or lock the transform center:

However, you still have to fully select the object before using it - not quite as tidy as simply dragging the centre point as you would do with any created object

The button I mention above was implemented for users who complained that at low zoom levels (when objects look small) it's too easy to move their center by mistake.

So this is off by default.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

If lots of alignment to another object is needed, I would enable the 'key' at the bottom of the Alignment panel, which lets you align anything to the object you select first (see the first row of buttons).

[b77]

@Igull Failure to snap an object to the (horizontal & vertical) center of another one when you drag by its contour seems to be a limitation related to enabled 'Detect Hovering Node' in Prefs > Changing Options.
Disable that and it should work.

[Igull]

@b77 @b77 said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

There is also this direct button in the context menubar at the top that allows you do edit or lock the transform center:

OK, that's good to know, thanks. However, it has no effect if adjusted transform centre is disabled in the preferences. This helps me currently as I would never need to adjust the centrum of the object for my purposes.

The button I mention above was implemented for users who complained that at low zoom levels (when objects look small) it's too easy to move their center by mistake.

OK. I assume some users might want to adjust the centre point if rotating the object

So this is off by default.

You can probably guess that mine isn't - no doubt caused by some rogue operator intervention

If lots of alignment to another object is needed, I would enable the 'key' at the bottom of the Alignment panel, which lets you align anything to the object you select first (see the first row of buttons).

Arghhh - I've been here before, caused no end of issues for me at the time - I'll just leave that as is

Failure to snap an object to the (horizontal & vertical) center of another one when you drag by its contour seems to be a limitation related to enabled 'Detect Hovering Node' in Prefs > Changing Options.

I've tried that with and without - doesn't seem to make any difference either way - however, since doing that, it now seems to be working - even though I've tried both ways a couple of times ?

I still prefer the central "node" method of dragging and snapping. However, grabbing and snapping via the perimeter of the object currently does seem to be functional and produces the same result for me - perhaps I'll get used to it

Neil

[b77]

If lots of alignment to another object is needed, I would enable the 'key' at the bottom of the Alignment panel, which lets you align anything to the object you select first (see the first row of buttons).

Arghhh - I've been here before, caused no end of issues for me at the time - I'll just leave that as is

Shoot an email to the developer with the issue(s) you found.

Failure to snap an object to the (horizontal & vertical) center of another one when you drag by its contour seems to be a limitation related to enabled 'Detect Hovering Node' in Prefs > Changing Options.

I've tried that with and without - doesn't seem to make any difference either way - however, since doing that, it now seems to be working - even though I've tried both ways a couple of times ?

If you updated to version 1.1.051, the above issue should be fixed.

[Igull]

@b77 said in Nodes invisible when hovering:

Shoot an email to the developer with the issue(s) you found.

That's OK, I had the key selected and was causing me headaches as I didn't know about the three options - I just leave mine on aligned to bounding box now

If you updated to version 1.1.051, the above issue should be fixed.

I've just been playing with that update and you're correct - all fixed - and a good number of my other issues fixed too

Neil