Hand tracing features (1/3) - Reference layers/objects
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It is suggestions for ease-of-use improvements that would significantly speed my workflow up, up. It is very, very inspired by current features from Krita that implemented them in close collaboration with artists. It was also requested in the Affinity forum by several users. So it is not features grabbed out of the thin air.
Doing it the old-school hard Adobe way is not my cup of tea.
Seen from @vectoradmin s chair it is also about onboarding and attracting artist with no Adobe history - a growing number - and users like me that expects more than the raw features and tons to remember.
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@Ingolf What if the name of this layer type in Krita from this list here?
https://docs.krita.org/en/reference_manual/layers_and_masks.html#cat-layers-and-masks -
@b77 said in Hand tracing features (1/3) - Reference layers/objects:
@Ingolf What if the name of this layer type in Krita from this list here?
https://docs.krita.org/en/reference_manual/layers_and_masks.html#cat-layers-and-maskshttps://docs.krita.org/en/reference_manual/tools/reference_images_tool.html
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@Ingolf said in Hand tracing features (1/3) - Reference layers/objects:
It is suggestions for ease-of-use improvements that would significantly speed my workflow up, up. It is very, very inspired by current features from Krita that implemented them in close collaboration with artists. It was also requested in the Affinity forum by several users. So it is not features grabbed out of the thin air.
I'd be interested in links to where this is mentioned in krita and specifically requested in the affinity forum. I'm always open to having my mind changed. Right now, as I mentioned a couple times in this thread, most everything you requested is already a part of VS. Not only that, but It's muscle memory for most users already.
I'm trying to understand how what you've described speeds up your workflow. Instead of a redundant panel geared toward your personal tracing preferences, why not take advantage of the powerful customization already in VS? Actions, new top menu folder, etc?
Doing it the old-school hard Adobe way is not my cup of tea.
I'm not sure what you mean by this bring the "old-school adobe way", every design program handles things as I've described. Create a new layer, add your reference image, lower the opacity, lock the layer, work on a new layer above. This is the expectation and assumed workflow in everything from clip studio to adobe to krita, to affinity to procreate, etc.
Seen from @vectoradmin s chair it is also about onboarding and attracting artist with no Adobe history - a growing number - and users like me that expects more than the raw features and tons to remember.
This is not a strictly adobe thing. This is already common knowledge use across all apps already. It sounds more like you have a unique workflow and want to bend VS overall to that workflow, at the detriment of other users who do not want to clutter up the UI with repetitive tools and panels. Not everyone works the way you do and VS cannot have custom panels built in for every potential user.
A complex full featured program like VS is already going to get detractors who feel it's UI is too "busy".
VS does a great job of giving the basics and common use items within easy reach on the UI. The rest is buried a little deeper and if you need more specific tool control, it's there. A full featured program like VS is going to require remembering shortcuts and deeper feature locations; there's no way to get around that and simplify down a complex program to fit everyone's specific needs without it becoming completely cluttered. This is where the value of the existing individual customization of VS comes in.
Create a custom new menu bar option with the tools you specifically want easy access to. Create custom actions for yourself, use the custom panel arrangement presets (i described in the other related thread and something that has been requested in VS already) -
@Ingolf said in Hand tracing features (1/3) - Reference layers/objects:
https://docs.krita.org/en/reference_manual/tools/reference_images_tool.html
So it's not a special layer type that does what you describe?
Anyway, I still think creating an Action (a string of commands) that change a bitmap image the way you need it for hand-tracing (even if it doesn't do everything you need) and posting it here would be more persuasive for fellow forum members.
You can then say "This recorded action takes me up to here but no further (not possible to have temporary opacity change for the image at the press of a button/ when starting a new path, for instance), that's why a special layer type that does the other parts automatically is needed".
So I'm not saying your suggestion/idea is bad, but an Action would help justify it better.
EDIT: Another advantage is that if you would post an Action, the developer or somebody else can explain how to improve it and achieve the other parts you think it can't do.
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@Ingolf said in Hand tracing features (1/3) - Reference layers/objects:
An action can probably do it, thanks, but these stories are about the user interface mostly for existing features making it easier to use and remember how to use the program for everybody.
I really miss these UX features myself.
Where are you seeing these UX options in other vector programs?
I'm in full support of actions in VS. Since everything else you mentioned is already in VS, this is a chance to maximize customization without compromising the UI for everyone.
You keep mentioning your suggestions this would make it easier to use VS, but you've not answered specifically my questions as to how.
If the solution can be found that helps you but does not add clutter to VS, wouldn't that be the ideal solution?
Are not actions and custom menus within your own copy of VS created for such a situation as this?
This way you can create your own keyboard shortcut as well that works for you without taking one from the limited supply for the users on the whole. It would be a wasted key command for myself for example, to dedicate one or two strictly to hiding certain layers in the layer panel@vectoradmin said in Hand tracing features (1/3) - Reference layers/objects:
@Ingolf Got it! Is see here 3 new actions:
- mark a selected layers as reference.
- toggle the visibility of all reference layers in one step.
- toggle the locked state of all reference layers in one step. I would not lock (for click through) by default. An additional shortcut could be used for this to turn on /off.
I can get behind these as actions. I think this will improve as we create our own actions and share them with each other.
I'd even love to see the ability to change the tint of the layer bar itself in the layers panel to signify what we want it to based on our own use of VS. Every layer we choose to use as a reference layer, we could make blue tint for example, making it easy to go in and click them on or off, lock or unlock easily. Another person may want to save a copy of their live strokes on an extra layer for backup and tint those types of layers yellow, another user may want to use color tints in the layers panel to represent items in the background, mid level and foreground.
An option like this leaves a lot of freedom to the user to determined their own methods that suit them. Creating whole new redundant panels may help a select few, but does not represent all users
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I went over to krita to look at the link provided in this thread. From what I see, krita once had a reference photo docker that stored reference images within that could be dragged onto the document and placed wherever. In the newer version, they've gone away from that and now you can paste or drag images right onto a layer from the source location.
There are options to modify a reference image within krita by adding contrast or making it black and white. Krita is a raster program, so that's expected. The rest of the features listed are essentially already available in VS.
The current method of importing and using reference images in krita is near identical to how we currently do it in VS -
@vectoradmin said in Hand tracing features (1/3) - Reference layers/objects:
I will need to find an another term than reference (already used for something else) and "guide" is also used.
Suggest not using any term for this - instead, generalize this with a tagging feature. Allow the user to define tags and assign those tags to layers and/or objects, then toggle the visibility by tag in a Tags panel, or lock a tag to treat all layers/objects so tagged as being locked. Could also have a context menu option to select all layers/objects with a given tag.
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Inspired by Krita. Not duplicated.
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