Corner Fulcrum Bug ?

VectorStyler

Some explanation of the way corners work in VS:

a shape is created from some parameters (like rectangle sizes) or from a path.
corners are applied to the cusp nodes of the shape (if set).
transformations (scaling, etc) and effects are applied on this path with corners.

Since scaling is at the last step, corners can be distorted when the shape is scaled.

exception: for some shapes scaling is changing the shape size directly (no transform is added) so the corners are not distorted.

Some ways to work around this: there is a Corner shape effect (Outline -> Shape Corner) can add a corner on top of a shape effect, but additional transforms will be then added on top of this, and this corner type cannot be changed localy for one node.

Another way is to setup the shape at the desired size, scale etc, convert to curves, and then add the corners.

Yes, this still an open issue and will try to improve how corners are handled, at least for scaled shapes.

Igull

@b77 said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

is a 'Keep Corner Radius' option needed as well?

TBH, you need to understand what a radius is - it's equidistant from two edges - essentially a circle with it's tangent points touching two lines - this is NOT what is happening in VS. I don't understand why adding corners is such an issue - all the other vector apps don't seem to have this issue (at least those that I've used).
Even if you create a freehand shape made from straight lines, a radiused corner is always symmetrical - unlike VS. OK, if you transform the radiused shape, the radiused corners will get screwed, but that's acceptable. What's not acceptable is having the corner fulcrum pre-positioned - that way, you can never get a symmetrical radius if you have transformed the object beforehand.
If there was a way to simply reset transform and get the correct radius fulcrums back (or have a way to NOT put them there in the first place ) , that would be half-acceptable. As it is, it's just unworkable for my use - I never know what the exact size of anything is going to be
The clue is in the name BTW - radius

Neil

Igull

@VectorStyler said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

Yes, this still an open issue and will try to improve how corners are handled, at least for scaled shapes.

Perhaps the option of NOT installing radiused corner centre points in the first place might help ? I would only radius a corner at the final stage (as an analogy, just as you would do when rounding over the edges of a piece of wood once it is sized to suit ) It's a simple calculation to find that centre point given the radius anyway ?

Neil

Subpath

@Igull said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

If there was a way to simply reset transform

i am little unshure, if i understand the Problem right
but if you not in need of a Parametric Shape.

Converting a Shape in Curves is a simple Solution
to reset any Transformation from a Shape.
So resize, scale, rotate your Shape then press
convert to curves and then rounding the corners.

b77

@Igull Having a 'Keep Corner Radius' option means I can disable it when I want the rounded
corner to scale along with a parametric shape, without having to convert it to curves.
Like this:

alt text

@Subpath said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

So resize, scale, rotate your Shape then press
convert to curves and then rounding the corners.

Yep, but ideally the app should "adapt" to the user and not vice versa.

Subpath

@b77 said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

Yep, but ideally the app should "adapt" to the user

thats true

Igull

@Subpath said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

i am little unshure, if i understand the Problem right
but if you not in need of a Parametric Shape.

TBH, any shape I create with the pen tool is 'parametric' - I can change it's width and height

Converting a Shape in Curves is a simple Solution
to reset any Transformation from a Shape.
So resize, scale, rotate your Shape then press
convert to curves and then rounding the corners.

No, sorry, that won't work. If you create a rectangle (using say the rectangle tool) then resize the rectangle (manually or via the edit boxes) - then you CANNOT add symmetrical radiused corners - they will NOT be radiused and there is no way to get the centre point of the radius to the correct position.

Neil

b77

@Igull said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

TBH, any shape I create with the pen tool is 'parametric' - I can change it's width and height

I used this word to refer to "smart shapes" that let you change specific properties of the
shape — side bending for rectangles, pie shape size derived from an ellipse, sides count
and bending for polygons, ray count and ray length for stars, etc.

So I referred to the properties that cannot be adjusted anymore after the 'smart shape'
is converted to curves.

Subpath

@b77, @Igull

yes, meant the smart shapes

Igull

@Subpath @b77

Yes, OK on the smart shapes, but nevertheless, it doesn't matter whether it's a smart shape converted to curves or a simple rectangle created with the pen tool (I'm just about to add a post on that too ), the fact remains that if you resize the object, you can no longer add symmetrical radiused corners to the object and there seems to be no way around this issue.
This is fairly serious - for me at least There needs to be a way to reset those corner centre points.

Neil

b77

@Igull said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

@Subpath @b77
you can no longer add symmetrical radiused corners to the object and there seems to be no way around this issue.

As a workaround for now, revert the rounded corners to zero and hit the 'Convert to Curves' button,
and it will let you add symmetrical radiused corners again.

Igull

@b77 said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

As a workaround for now, revert the rounded corners to zero and hit the 'Convert to Curves' button,
and it will let you add symmetrical radiused corners again.

Nope, that doesn't work - if you already have a rectangle created with the pen tool, you can't get back to that position - the centre points move as soon as you resize the rectangle (smart or otherwise).

Neil

b77

@Igull Yes, a rectangle made with the Pen tool is a "dumb" rectangle.

If I apply rounded corners to it then decide that I need to resize the rectangle non-proportionally,
bring the rounded corners back to zero (no roundness), then pressing 'Convert to Curves' resets
the rounded corner handles to equal distance from the corners:

alt text

It's a workaround…

Subpath

@Igull , @b77

A alternative way to resize a "dumb" Shape
and keep round Corners intact, is to do this
with the "Shape Editor Tool"

See Video here

Igull

@b77 said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

If I apply rounded corners to it then decide that I need to resize the rectangle non-proportionally,
bring the rounded corners back to zero (no roundness), then pressing 'Convert to Curves' resets
the rounded corner handles to equal distance from the corners:

Not here it doesn't There must be some difference in preference set between us that I don't know about ?
Forget actually adding corners for now, if you create a rectangle, convert shape to curves then resize the rectangle non-proportionately - say just pulling one edge, you can see that the corner radius centres are miles off being symmetrical ?? Doing another convert shape to curves does nothing ?

TIA

Neil

Igull

@Subpath

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I see the issue !!!!!!!!

You are using the pulldown from the shape palette, I'm using the menuitem convert shapes to curves which I have permanently on my right-click contextual menu !!!

When I use the one on the shape palette, it actually works.

I now see why, there are two Object menuitems, one is convert shapes to curves the other is convert to curves (Shift+Opt+O) - maybe just a tad confusing ????

The shape palette actually says "Convert the select object shapes to curves (Shift+Opt+O)" whereas the object menuitem says convert to curves (Shift+Opt+O) !!

Perhaps this all needs rewording :-))

I'm quite happy to just reset the corner centres for now, but this is all a bit confusing for the over sixties

Thanks

Neil

Subpath

@Igull

Subpath

@Igull

If you look at the Corner Panel > Panels > Corner
down below at the right side the X in circle
will delete all rounded corners from a selected shape

btw you can create a Action for the needed Steps
see pic below
( unwanted recorded Steps can be deleted in the Action Panel)

VectorStyler

@Igull said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

Resize the rectangle using the width and height boxes

Question regarding the original post:
Do you have the "Direct Shape Transformation" option enabled in Preferences -> Editing Options 2 (bottom right checkbox) ?

Igull

@VectorStyler said in Corner Fulcrum Bug ?:

Question regarding the original post:
Do you have the "Direct Shape Transformation" option enabled in Preferences -> Editing Options 2 (bottom right checkbox) ?

No, I don't

I've set that now and the issue has gone !!!! I've tried with various shapes and none are an issue when resized now - just perfect, thank you !!!!!!!!!!

Neil